[vhgmcbuddy]

Many thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences. I have now pretty well conceded that my flywheel assy is permanently seized onto the taper. I even resorted to cutting away the outer of the wheel to give me access for heat, and hopefully the contact points. For the next move, I have ordered an Ebay flywheel – not knowing if it is the right one, as mine has no serial No. on it with a view to detaching my brass wheel from its hub, and fitting the “new” one.
The logic is that there must be some sort of flywheel to give inertia for running the engine, but more importantly, the flywheel carries the fan and the wheel for the pull-start. Having restored some sort of flywheel, then I plan to fit some sort of external magneto. The timing of the contact breaker should be OK as this relates to the cam on the seized flywheel shaft. One possibility is to make a circuit with an old fashioned ignition coil, as on cars of yesteryear,
wit a rechargeable battery and capacitor, using only the Villiers contact points to time the spark.Idon’t think the MECO unit can be used because my “replacement” flywheel may not have the magnet in the right place, and I don’t have much access to the coil . My next task is to find a small reasonably priced 12V rechargeable battery. I live in France and stuff the comes from UK can incur customs duty as well as hefty carriage costs.
Wish me luck……… Dave

[vhgmcbuddy]

Heat is one of the best spanners in the toolkit of anyone messing about with old stuff. Got the method of removing a Briggs & Stratton flywheel from multiple American YouTube videos. They put a wedge opposite the cylinder and a pry bar next to the barrel. Put the point of small air chisel on the end of the crank, pull the trigger and give the pry bar a yank at the same time and off they pop. BUT I have been lucky enough in never having to deal with a stuck one. Do have a slide hammer puller that gets most things off. If in the initial effort it does not move, or even seized nut, I very quickly resort to the blow torch.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thats a good idea, had not thought of that. A method I use to remove Briggs & Stratton flywheels is to put some wedges between the flywheel and the armature plate. Get a compressed air chisel, fit a point to it, place it in the centre of the crankshaft and pull the trigger. Never feel comfortable doing it though, armature plates are thin aluminium and always worry I could fracture it. Maybe with the Villiers it could be possible to suspend the engine ¼” off the floor, drive end down, with three of blocks of wood from the floor to the armature plate. So the engines weight is on the armature plate. Fit a packer between the cylinder barrel and the armature plate, put the wedges directly opposite the wood blocks and packer. Apply some heat to the flywheel centre and give the air chisel a go.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Dave,

Had another idea that may solve your problem. If the HT and LT continuity tests are fine, you could fit an external Meco transistor ignition unit. If you can get to the wire terminal on the hot side of the points, you could disconnect them and connect with a wire fed from the Meco unit though the back of the armature plate. The Meco module dispenses with the points and condenser. It works by ‘sensing’ flux reversal when the flywheel magnet passes from north to south over the coil’s soft iron core. This is when the points would start to open, the Meco unit has a transistor that does the same action. Namely stopping the flow of electric current to the primary windings. Because this action is so much faster, the collapse in the magnetic field is quicker too, resulting in a bigger spark at the plug.

The above is the theory, I have not fitting one myself. Although I had a duff coil on a Briggs & Stratton, it had a points system. I replaced it with a new modern ignition module and the spark exceeded the 6mm gap I like to achieve. Have tested other engines for spark gaps with these modules and >6mm is the norm. The Meco is available on ebay at £10.09p and for that money, it may be worth a punt. Have both a Villiers Mk25c on the Clifford and a Jap 2a on a Colwood that I have not used for a couple of years. Will get them out this spring and test the spark gap, if <6mm will fit a Meco unit just out of curiosity.

To test your coil with a multimeter, ground the black lead, set to 20K and put the red probe in the plug cap to test for HT continuity. For the primary coil, set to 200, put the probes together and note the reading, it may be a fraction of an ohm. Disconnect the points and put the red probe on the wire that goes to the coil. From the reading, deduct the figure that was noted with the probes together.

Another test that I have not personally done is to get a 6v or 9v battery. Set up a spark tester, or if you cannot get hold of one. Remove the earthing electrode from an old spark plug, if this sparks the gap is about 4mm. Clip a wire from the negative terminal on the battery to the armature plate, ensure the points are closed and with a probe from the positive battery terminal, quickly tap the screw on the points that retains the terminal for the wire that goes to the coil. This test ‘loads up’ the coil so is a test that better replicates performance when the engine is rotating. But I would still do the multimeter test first, its recommended by engine manufactures, including Villiers.

Of course even by fitting the Meco unit, the flywheel will still be stuck on the crankshaft and you will still have the same problem if the coil fails. You could do as you suggested originally and try to get the points serviceable with the flywheel in place. Then mount an external battery, coil and condenser. To get the flywheel off you may try to adapt an existing three bolt puller and tap holes in the flywheel spokes. If you do get it off, you could reuse it by turning the nut retaining section and using a new nut on the crankshaft. Or if a replacement flywheel is readily available, cut if off like Andy says.

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Dave,

When undoing the flywheel nut, there is a few turns when the nut feels free, where it transitions between tightening onto the crankshaft and starting to pull the flywheel off the taper. It then goes tight again and if you continue to turn or hit the spanner, it almost has the feel of a thread stripping. But it is just the action of the flywheel pulling off the taper. If the nut turns free for several turns but the flywheel is still firmly on the crankshaft. Then you will have stripped a thread and would hope its not on the crankshaft.

Have read with interest your ideas about fitting and external coil and battery. About 14 years ago I purchased a Clifford Mk1 that was in great condition, except there was no spark. The vendor was very up front about it and said he thought the coil was duff. He said it may be possible to fit an external single wire energy transfer coil, similar to a Honda C50. He was right about the failed coil, so did some research and decided to have a go. The system was developed by trials riders in the 1960’s, whose Villiers engines had reliability problems. They stripped the secondary windings off the ignition coils, linked the primary with the lighting coil and fitted a 6v external coil. Without a lighting coil, I just stripped the secondary windings and attached the single wire to the external coil to the hot side of the points. No spark, so gave up on the idea and got a replacement from Villiersparts. It was not an exact copy and needed a bit of work to fit. But the results were a good fat spark.

I now know why my attempt of fitting an external coil did not work. The voltage generated by the primary winding was not enough to induce a spark. It is why the 1960’s conversion used two coil windings. In an ideal world the ratio of primary to secondary windings should be 1:10. The method I should have done was to strip the coil completely and rewind the primary using 22swg enamelled wire, putting 350-400 turns on the soft iron core. Still have the external coil, it was I recall only £12 and have vouched that the next time I have a duff coil. I am going to have another go at fitting it. The advantage being that the voltage generated by the primary will create stronger lines of magnetic force within the secondary. At the moment of flux reversal and when the points open, the magnetic field rapidly collapses. The voltage produced will be greater, therefore a bigger spark at the plug.

However, all of the above may be superfluous to you. Once you get the flywheel off, you may just clean and adjust the points and job done. I like to obtain a spark at 6mm air gap and use a cheap adjustable spark tester for this. 4mm is OK, it will run, but starting and tickover is better with the greater gap. If no or weak spark, then get a multimeter and test resistance. HT continuity should be 3000 – 7000 ohms and LT 0.5 – 0.7 ohms. If you are inside these ranges but still no or a weak spark, then in all likelihood the coil is OK, but the condenser if duff. This can be tested, but will need a megger to check the insulation resistance is 200M ohms. Its probably better to replace it and I would fit a modern capacitor. I fitted one from Brightsparks with fantastic results, all of the above test figures and methodology I obtained from them too. They have a brilliant website that goes into magneto ignition in great detail. Note that Villiersparts sell a modern condenser, but do not know its specification. Subsequently I have got some polyester film 630v 220nF/0.22uF capacitors and fitted those. Again with brilliant results.

Best of luck with everything.

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

Many thanks Andy for your post. A friend of a friend told me about the clever captive nut in the flywheel assembly, and I also found a S/H slogging spanner of the right size. The slogging hammer certainly shifts the nut – to the extent that in anticlock mode it seems to have stripped the thread of the nut &/or the crankshaft. Before running free it had deformed the centre of the bronze part of the flywheel My last attempt will be to borrow a big bearing puller.
I’ll look up George at Villiersparts.
Thanks again for your help

Dave

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi mitzygolf
The number you have indicated on the casting is its part number not a machine number.
Atco never had registration numbers.
Your Atco 22 inch Standard started production in 1921 and finished in 1929, although Atco dealers were still selling the model as new to as late as 1932.
Through the production time line of the Atco Standard 22 inch, there were various modifications, mainly with the engine cc capacity and secondly to the carburettor used, most changes took place between 1921 and 1923, your machine dates to the latter production 1923 – 1929, as can be seen in your picture as it has the later Villiers carburettor.
If you wish to see a timeline in picture format then the best web site to view your machine is on http://www.hdtrust.org
Also you will be able to read the history of Atco, and also see pictures of the original prototype Atco Standard of 1920.
The only other way to identify your mower more accurately would be to have the original bill of sale, which some would say a tall order!
The adjoining picture is of the only known example of the Atco Standard 22 inch prototype 1920, take a close look at the frame

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[vhgmcbuddy]

I have some original information on the Opperman Motocart, I also have two original unrestored examples, with different bodies, if its any interest to you?

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi

I have a sales brochure from Opperman which details their range, I will try and scan it over to you

[vhgmcbuddy]

Yes I am looking for a manufacturer date and have some more info including a number stamped on the frame as below.

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Not aware of an ID plate on an Atco Standard? What information are you looking for? If you are still a member of The Old lawn Mower Club take a look at the Atco Timeline which gives excellent information & can help with approximate date of your mower, if that is what you are after.

[vhgmcbuddy]

You are a little off track over the Sturmey Archer engine history.Ransomes purchased the Sturmey Archer engines up to 1932, but from that date they gained a license to make them, nothing to do with Raleigh as their intervention came later, there are some engines which are floating around which Ransome’s made under license which have no markings on the crank case, which date to 1933.

The plough you are showing in your photo looks like an early Brinley made in the USA

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Andy,
Photos of plough and cultivator attached. I don’t know whether they would have been original or just added later .
Thanks

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi everyone, thanks for your help with trying to identify this machine.

Looking closer at it in shed today I’m not sure it’s a bitsa! as it all seems to be well constructed with no odd bolts nuts etc or poorly made metal work some of which is quite complex. I may be wrong though.

I have been searching for similar machines or images and forums chat on web and so far it would appear that gearbox is maybe Strumey Archer. I also found Raleigh motorcycles with same or very similar engine dated 1920-30’s.
Interesting there was also a ransomes mower and early MG crawler with strumey archer engines very similar to this one.
Apparently Raleigh bought strumey archer and copied their engine and sold them to ransomes etc for use in various machines.
I’m going to clean the machine and engine to see if There are any serial numbers etc and post clearer pictures back here.

Thanks again for your help

[vhgmcbuddy]

I’m sure somewhere in our store I will have an original copy, I will have a dig and let you know
Andrew

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