[vhgmcbuddy]

An update the Alcon 1½” pump. Went to an auction on Wednesday, there were two pumps there in one lot. One attached to a JAP 2a, the other to a 3 phase electric motor. The latter had an embossed ali label on it stating the pump had a head of 66’, so around 20m. This compares very poorly to even the cheapest Chinese modern equivalents if it is to be used for an irrigation system with even a medium pressure requirement. Am assuming the pump had a market for lower pressure irrigation systems and simple water transfer use with the smaller horsepower engines that were available.

The auctioneer had to drop the bid to £10 to get going, still no hands up until muggings put his up and won it. It’s worth it in scrap alone because of the heavy electric motor. But the JAP pump set is very tidy, as is the electric set up. The JAP set is painted lime green and was wondering if anyone has seen this colour before. Am not sure if it’s factory applied paint by Alcon, or someone has done it when it had a reconditioning. Both the Villiers engine pump and the electric one has the usual dark green paint that I have seen on other Alcon pumps. Whatever, it looks very clean, but without any compression. A stuck valve is suspected. Will have a play when I have some spare time and see if I can get it going.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Since them photos I have found the correct carb and mag. I have had it running and runs really really well!

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Grahame and Andy,

Thanks for your advices !

I figured that the best solution is buying a complete machine for donor.

I could find this in some auction but the problem is finding someone that want to prepare to transport to Spain.

Many people wants easy money…

I’ll will inform about my progress.

Best Regards,

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Ruben,

You may try this supplier https://howard-rotavator-spares.com/shop/ But I purchased an expensive clutch friction plate from them for a MkV Gem and the holes did not align with the drive plate. Got back to them, the reply was to tap the pins to fit as they were most probably bent. That was wrong, the pins were fine, it was the friction plate holes that were wrong. I managed to file them to fit, but not that happy about it. Communication and after sales service from them was poor.

Think your only other option is to try to get a complete, but non-running machine and use as a donor. Or get some of the parts made in Spain. Unfortunately not many sellers of such a machine would want the bother of arranging for it to be fitted on a pallet and transported to Spain. They come up sometimes in farm auctions and are quite cheap. They are occasionally on ebay uk, but often sellers there want silly money. The VHGMC magazine has them for sale too at times. But think in each case the transport problem will have to be overcome.

Best wishes,

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Mark,

Glad I can assist and hope the testing identifies the problem. Am unfamiliar with the machine or engine, but from the photos it looks like it has a Kettering ignition system where the ignition is run from the battery. The black wire goes from the ‘hot’ side of the points to the coil. You can test this with the multimeter and for testing would not fit the cut out wire. But again can test it’s continuity with the multimeter.

The most common problems are dirt, or corrosion on the terminals of the LT side. A breakdown of the secondary windings in the coil, or a failed condenser. All easily and cheaply fixed on a Kettering system as the only expensive part would be the coil. If that has failed, you can substitute one from another manufacturer. It’s when they have failed in a magneto it becomes more costly.

Best of luck and please get back to me if you want any further information.

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi, below is my standard advice for ignition testing for those who want to try to fix a machine themselves:

If you have not done it already, firstly I would remove the points, hone any pitting out from the contact surfaces, refit and set the gap to 0.015”, also clean all terminal connections. With the plug cap removed, hold the end of the HT lead 6mm from a clean part of the engine and see if there is a spark. If there is, you have fixed it, if not, close the gap until its 4mm away. I find holding the HT lead steady difficult, so have got an adjustable spark gap tester that was <£4, its one of the best tools in my box. An engine will start and run with a 4mm gap, but for easier starting and smoother tickover, you really need the gap to be 6mm. A good mag will achieve this. <4mm and the mag needs attention and personally I am not happy until I get it to spark at 6mm. If still there is a poor or no spark, a test with a multimeter is as follows: for LT Continuity, rotate until the contact-breaker points are open. Set the dial to 200Ω, measure the resistance with the two probes shorted together. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm and note it. Then measure the resistance between ground and the ‘hot’ side of the contact-breaker. Deduct the noted reading from the reading on the dial and the result should be between 0.5 & 0.7 Ω. A high reading indicates a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit. A lower reading means there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. For HT Continuity, set the dial to 20KΩ, place the red probe on the pick-up or HT lead, the black to ground, the reading should be between 3 & 7 KΩ. If significantly higher there is probably a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the winding and the pick-up. If significantly lower, its unusual, but still indicates a problem. A lot of ignition troubles are due to the condenser. If the LT and HT tests are fine and you have access to a megger, the condenser should pass a 2GΩ @ 500v test. If you cannot do such a test, I would replace it with either a recently manufactured one, not NOS and certainly not second hand. As the wax paper dielectric inside them deteriorates with age and use. Or get a modern capacitor such as an EasyCap CU220 from https://brightsparkmagnetos.com/ which is my preference. In my experience they often perform better than old style condensers. Have had instances where a good mag with the existing condenser achieved a spark at 4mm, by fitting a modern capacitor the gap increased to 6mm with the subsequent easier starting and a smoother tickover. Resting a plug on the side of an engine to see if there is a spark is not a good enough test if ignition problems are suspected.

What I do now is fit a polyester film 630v 220nF/0.22uF capacitors instead of a condensor. They are about £4 for 10 on ebay. I mount them on circuit board strip.

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

This old dog leant a new trick. The problem with the Kohler ignition timing was twofold. Firstly, the manual’s instruction was incorrect. It stated that the points should start to open when the flywheel timing mark S was next to the armature plate mark and AFTER that, adjust the points gap to 0.020”. Yet this action altered the ignition timing. The correct method, which I found by reading posts on forums, was to set the gap and THEN adjust it so the points open at S. I originally followed the manual’s method and it resulted in the timing being too advanced by 8 degrees. The engine was difficult to start and in the end, impossible. The second problem was that I did my usual method of honing out pits on the point’s contact surfaces. This resulted in changing the timing and something I was not aware of. When I tried to adjust the points so they open on S, they did not open at all. The fix was to file some material off the heel that goes against the rod that opens the points. However I am going to get a new set of points as they are readily available.

The engine still did not start after the third pull, which is what I like them to do. It did get going in the end though and ran well. Am still not sure if it’s getting enough of the correct fuel/air mixture in the combustion chamber to start easily. Also it’s big heavy lump to pull over, the recent rebore meant it’s still a little tight, the starting handle position just below the handlebars is awkward and the belt clutch on the mower deck creates a lot of friction. All combine into me putting in a lot of effort and still having just one 4 stroke cycle which I hope will fire strongly enough to go to the next cycle. But at least I have a good runner now, the timing was the key and it was David’s original post that set me on course to fix it. It has also made me think that if an engine is mechanically good, the carb appears to function correctly and the spark is 6mm, but it is still a poor starter. Then the timing could be out and from now on am going to check this on ignition systems with points. From what I have read in the forums, wear on certain parts in old engines can effect the ignition timing. If I get this problem on what should be fixed timing and going to use the adjusting of the points gap as a method to getting it to the position the manufacturer’s recommend. Got to be careful the points still have a gap that is close to the recommendation too as otherwise the dwell angle may not be right.

[vhgmcbuddy]

You can see that the #346 back plate and the #391 stay tube for 20″ rotor are broken.

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Other parts of the rotovator 20″ unit

#321 chain case
#326 wearing shoe
#346 back plate
#360 spacing slave.
#361 drive plate.
#362 friction disc – 2 units.
#364 wearing plate.
#391 stay tube for 20″ rotor.
#394 bush.
#410 spring.
#411 plunger.

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Parts I need:

#129 – PTO DOG.

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[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi,

My name is Ruben and I’m from Spain.

I have a Howard Clifford 700 with a rotovator 20″ unit.

It belonged to my uncle and now I would like to repair.

I need diferent parts, especially from the rotavator unit.

An alternative solution, will be to buy a complet rotovator unit.

Do you know someone that can help me?

One problem, will be the transport and taxes to send the item to Spain.

That’s a matter I’ll have to cover.

I would appreciate your help.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Andy,

I do not know the model the armature plate and flywheel came from. I purchased a Clifford roteo with a Mk25c engine about 15 years ago. The vendor was honest and said he thought the coil had packed up and suggested an external coil from a Honda C50 could be rigged up as a fix. Did try, but through lack of knowledge I think I omitted to remove the secondary windings from the duff coil. Also it was highly likely that the original coil still did not have enough primary windings to induce the secondary. The ratio needs to be around 100 : 1. A friend gave me the parts with the sheared shaft to see if the coil would fit. It didn’t, so I got a replacement that George Shead was selling at the time that required a little bit of work to fit. I have never tried to remove the sheared shaft from the flywheel to see if the woodruff key has bent over or sheared too. In fact I do not even know if there is one, it could be just a plain taper like the Mk25c. If so, its an example of someone over-tightening the flywheel nut.

David’s post has reignited (pun intended) my thoughts about the timing on my Kohler K181. The Condor was always a bad starter and it was not helped with the usual drag problem with belt clutches preventing the engine from turning over as rapidly as it should with a hand start. When I got the Ransomes Bobcat, I retired the Hayter. After I wrote my reply yesterday I did a bit of research and found a lot about timing the K series engine. Apparently unless the ignition is spot on, the problems I was having manifest themselves. One chap said he initially set the points to 0.020” and even reducing it to 0.018” with static timing from the flywheel marks made a vast improvement. Others say more accuracy can be obtained with a strobe. But the consensus was that just setting the points to 0.020” was not good enough, they then need adjusting to the timing marks. If using a static method, the old fag paper trick is not good enough, you need a multimeter. Many years ago I had a tuned Yamaha RD400 with a twin set of points and ignition timing had to be checked every 700 miles. I got a plug adaptor so a dial gauge could measure the piston position to 0.1mm and used the multimeter to see when the points opened. Am going to have a good look at the Condor this weekend and give the ignition timing a thorough checking over. Looking forward to it.

Grahame

[vhgmcbuddy]

I had the opposite problem with a Barrowmix mixer that had a small Briggs and Stratton engine on it. I bought the mixer for the drum, as mine had started to rot away (tip, if you are going to store a mixer, do not leave any water in it). Thought I would get the engine going as it seemed like it had not had much work. Could get it to pop and bang, then run for a bit, but no power or even revs. Thought I would check the flywheel key, it is a soft alloy and designed to shear if the engine’s machine came to a sudden stop. It had a step in it which was similar to the 0.035” you moved the timing by. But in this case it prevented the engine from running correctly. Think someone had overloaded the mixer and the key partially sheared. Which was my good fortune as I didn’t pay much for it and now the engine runs as sweet as a nut.

Someone gave me a Villiers armature plate and flywheel with the crank sheared right off. It came from a water pump, the user did not fit a strainer to the suction hose. It pulled up a stone, stopped the impeller and with a steel key the flywheel’s momentum sheared about a 7/8” shaft as clean as a whistle. Have a Villiers Mk25c on a Clifford roteo, when I replaced the coil I only gave the flywheel nut a few light taps to tighten it up and glad I did. I hit a big stone, the engine stopped dead, but the flywheel moved on the taper, so no harm was done.

Yes, there is a little plunger rod on the Kohler that operates the exterior points and when it kicks back it is really vicious. Looking at the manual it appears that fine tuning the timing can be done by adjusting the points gap. But have not done this before, have always set the gap to the manual’s recommendations. Would be good if anyone has had a similar experience to me with Kohler engines and subsequently have got the ignition set up spot on to get them to start better. Am going to dig the Condor from the back of the shed this weekend and have a look. Don’t need a mower at the moment though. In the Vale of Evesham we have not had any significant rain since the end of Feb. The grass is not growing and feel for those who make a living from the land.

[vhgmcbuddy]

That is very interesting. Have a Hayter Condor mower fitted with a Kohler K181 engine that’s always been a pig to start. The automatic compression release does not operate on every pull of the cord. Or it kicks back. It used to burn oil for fun, so I took the engine apart and then got a pattern re-build kit from the USA. After a rebore I put it together and the engine itself ran beautifully. Starting though was still a pain. I adjusted the ACP tab, made sure I still had a 6mm spark in air and the carb was still supplying fuel, but still no better. It’s not helped with the pull cord handle being under the machine’s handlebars. I then got a Ransomes Bobcat zero turn mower, so put the Hayter at the back of the shed.

Just checked the Kohler engine manual and the ignition should be timed to 20 degrees BTDC. Your post have given me some thought and will again have a look at the timing. If anyone has any tips on what to look out for on the Kohler engine, I would be very grateful. From what I understand they are often difficult starters. As the ignition is fixed, the spark excellent and compression was good, I mostly blamed the carb. But think that’s fine, but the timing could be out.

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Brian
I would say someone is trying to lead you up the garden path!
Qualcast B1 colour is blue, the nearest match is actually Ford Mexico blue, most of Qualcast’s side wheel mowers were light blue even their first one the model C in 1923, however some of their models were green for example their model H in the mid 1930’s and the rarest of all is their model K from 1928 with only 2 to 3 examples ever surfaced, they look like a Lloyds Pennsylvania.
Hope this helps
Regards The Hall & Duck Trust

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