[wristpin]

Some of the last Villiers engines did have electronic ignition but if on an Atco 24 it would be a recent addition as from the late 60s they had Tecumseh H50s then H60s and when they became Royales they had BS lumps. There are also some Chinese Loncin engines around badged Villiers but they are usually yellow or blue.
An image may be more use than a number, but let’s have both!

[wristpin]

An alternative to the pointed object is a small self tapper gripped with mole/vice grips, just don’t screw it in too far and damage whatever is behind it. I’ve reused plugs after sealing the hole with Devcon or similar and a smear of Wellseal around the rim.

[wristpin]

Why didn’t I get one?
Don’t answer that !

[wristpin]

The “slit” is fine but unfortunately Villiers don’t provide an adjacent mark to line it up to. It’s just another judgement by eye – and is the engine sitting truly vertical anyway?!
Fixing tdc by eye or even with a dial gauge has its inaccuracies; the only really accurate way is the positive stop and timing disk method but, as has already been said, that requires a a BTDC figure in degrees, however few manufacturers provide that. Unfortunately extrapolating that from the commonly provided linear measurement requires knowledge of the centre to centre length of the connecting rod – not something that is usually readily available !
When all is said and done, on “our type of engines” a little care using the manufacturer’s data a the Mk1 eyeball is all that’s needed to achieve a satisfactory result – and maybe a couple of shots at getting it right !

[wristpin]

<In my Villiers MK15 and MK15HS operators manuals I have there is no mention of setting the timing up this “easy” way.Hope you get it sorted soon. >

I think that the reason that no mention is made of the “easy way” is that not all engines seem to have had those marks added. I’ve got just one Villiers manual,out of many, which actually mentions that those marks are added during the initial engine build.
While it may make life easy it makes no allowance for the where the points gap is set in the 12 – 15thou range. That together with a bit of inaccuracy in finding the exact TDC position (a few degrees of crank rotation where the piston appears to be stationary) can produce a cumulative error.
It would actually make setting BTDC much easier if more manuals gave it in degrees rather than a linear measurement but taking Villiers as an example, one or two manuals do but the majority don’t.

The rebore makes no difference to the timing.

[wristpin]

You say “new magneto from Meetens” . Is that new new, or new used? If the latter and the points are clean and shutting squarely,I’d be inclined to suspect the condenser (square one hidden under the points). Bit of a faff to get at but relatively cheap to try a substitute. Other than that you could replace the points and condenser with a Meco electronic module which makes the ignition system almost winter proof.

[wristpin]

Quite possibly a Gutbrod, imported and sold in the UK by Allen Power Equipment, often under the name Allen Moto Standard. They were a tough, proper miniature tractor quite capable of market garden work etc.

[wristpin]

Only just picked up on this thread but the advice given re Westwood transmissions is good. The Peerless transaxles used in the majority of Westwoods and many other ride-on mowers is only rated for rolling loads (small trailers) and not ground engaging implements. Smaller Wheelhorses have similar transaxles but the larger ones have the much stronger cast iron cased units that will cope with reasonable draught loading.
US model ranges often distinguish between “Yard tractors” and Garden tractors, the latter often having draught capability eg the older Ariens ranges where the YT models were ride-on lawnmowers and the GT models were built to a much higher spec with some draught capability.

Unfortunately tractor shape doesn’t necessarily mean tractor capabilities!

[wristpin]

Welding down through a nut down into a stud that has sheared nearly flush with the block is fine but tricky. I’ve found it easier and more effective to weld a washer to the stud and then a nut to the washer . If the washer is slightly larger in diameter than the nut there is plenty of “flange” to weld to.
A further refinement if the situation allows is to lay two small diameter nails or even bits of mig wire under the washer so that it is not pulled tight to the block causing unwanted resistance to turning.
It may seem obvious but the “art” of recovering from such mini disasters is to spend a bit of time thinking about it and formulating a plan of attack that will make the best of the situation rather than just grabbing the vice grips and making things worse.

[wristpin]

Interesting about the mower being offset , that makes sense. However, I’m fairly certain that this one was directly behind the Bantam, hence my original comment. It’s not too far from home so I’ll try to get another look at it. It is scheduled to appear on fleabay but the owner relies on his granddaughter to arrange such things so maybe not for a while !

[wristpin]

Zenoah or Xenoah? One and the same, or different companies?
Xenoah manufactured brush cutters were around when I first got involved in the garden machinery business in the late 70s – usually branded by machinery distributors such as Allen Power Equipment, EP Barrus, Mountfield and Paice and Sons of Maidstone.
I have several parts lists with the X spelling for the Allen branded brush cutters dating from 1976.

[wristpin]

</Angus , yes there were both 3 and 4 hole starters for the F12.>

Paul at Meetens tells me that the pressed steel cased three leg unit was BSA’s design and that after Villiers took on the BSA brand they incorporated the same internals into a four leg case.

Thanks to all for the contributions. The engine in question is now up and running with electronic ignition and a borrowed three leg starter.

[wristpin]

All interesting stuff . I’ve been having a bit of a sort through some odds and ends which may cast some light on my F12 Sloper conundrum.
I’m attaching an image that I took today showing, on the left a Siba starter, in the centre a three leg Villiers one which does fit the Sloper in question and on the right the remains of a Villers four hole which is identical to the one on my Ransomes Twenty Four with a Villiers F15 and interestingly appears to be identical to the illustration in the F12 handbook; so have Villiers used the wrong illustration in the F12 book or were both three and four leg pressed steel NV starters used on the F12 Sloper.

Looks like the forum software wont allow me to add a pdf file so here’s a Dropbox link instead!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgpo0504fbs6cnv/Villiers%20and%20Siba%20recoil%20units0001.pdf?dl=0

Attachments:

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[wristpin]

It’s a bit of a mystery at present as I have both the Norton Villiers pressed steel and the ally Siba units and they both have four legs. There’s no problem in getting round the issue as I have several four hole cowlings but it’s now become something that I would like to get to the bottom of. (anal?!)
I’ve dropped an email to Paul at Meetens – if any one knows the answer it will be him.

Solved the issue of the Hawk roller dimensions as someone on another forum has produced a parts list showing the roller dimensions.

[wristpin]

As you appear to know someone with the knowledge and equipment to turn up a new nut, I’m sure that they would have the ability to measure and gauge the thread size and pitch – or am I missing something?

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