Help with identifying Brass Machinery Tag

[mickey2names]

I’m new to the forum, but while out metal detecting, I found a heavy 51mm x 4mm Round cast brass disk in the pleasure gardens of a gothic revival hall in the West Midlands. I disappeared down several internet rabbit holes trying to identify it, but I had no luck. The off-centre position of the hole adds to the mystery, as do the maker’s initials L HX. The consensus is that it was attached to a piece of garden equipment, and I’m hoping one of you experts might help solve the riddle.
Many thanks
Michael CP
PS The green tinge of the picture has something to do with the digital camera.

By way of reference to this forum, in a previous life, I was part of the team that developed ‘Trantor’

• This topic was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by mickey2names.

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[wristpin]

Can’t help with the disc but I was fairly familiar with the Trantor. Another good idea that didn’t quite make it. You may know that there’s still a couple or more around in the UK that turn up at shows etc .

[mickey2names]

Thanks. I’ve seen one at the Welland Steam Fair. It was designed for use in Africa but was underpowered and expensive.

[alan]

Is there anything on the reverse of the disc? Or a way that it has been fixed onto anything?

[mickey2names]

Thanks for asking – completely bank

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[charlie]

Could it be a tag off a sack of seed eg grass seed?

[alan]

I have looked through adverts, catalogues, etc., and cannot find anything that looks like your item.

I doubt that it has been fixed on a machine. I would have thought that if it came with a machine, it would have the maker mark such as Ransomes or Greens. Also, it appears to have no other fixing than the ability to take a length of wire or string through the hole.

I was also thinking along Charlie’s lines. He mentioned that it may have been attached to a bag of seed or graded product and this does seem quite plausible. Perhaps the purpose of it being made of brass would be that it could be stamped with a reference number if it were blank – and the size is so that it could be read or seen easily.

Has anybody any other thoughts?

[urbanalfa]

I would agree with Charlie and Alan that it seems unlikely it was attached to a machine.

My money would be on this tag being attached to a tree purchased from a nursery in the dormant season. The stamped ES50 would be the catalogue reference for the tree that is being guaranteed to be as per the catalogue specification. The gardener would plant the tree in the dormant season when there were no leaves to identify the variety. Nowadays we have plastic labels and pictures with plants, but this could easily be 100 years old.

L HX could refer to anything that identifies the nursery – back in the era that this is likely to originate from the nursery may have had a moto in Latin that could have been shortened to these initials.

[alan]

@urbanalfa

It could certainly be from a tree or nursery stock.

A few years ago when working I found many tags from fruit trees and plants that had fallen to the ground and been buried for decades. I still have quite a few in different shapes and sizes. One unusual one is for Narcissus Masterpiece – this cast plant label measures 62mm x 18mm x 5mm thick, and so the mystery disk at 51mm across and 4mm thick is probably not an unusual size for a cast tag/label.

There was quite a bit of label production in the 1800s and 1900s. One report recommended writing the name on the tree trunk in case the label fell off in transit!

The attached advert from 1875 describes the newly adopted labels for the Royal Gardens at Windsor. The labels were made from ‘white metal’ with raised black-faced letters. They were made by J Smith, The Royal Label Factory, Stratford-on-Avon.

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[mickey2names]

Many thanks for the food for thought, and they certainly add ‘grist to the mill.’ However, going down the seed/tree route, there is no evidence that a guarantee was ever supplied. In so far as my research showed. In the late 19th century, it was not common for seed suppliers to offer formal guarantees on their products. Agriculture at the time was still heavily dependent on natural variables like weather, soil quality, and farming techniques, which made it difficult for seed suppliers to guarantee outcomes.

The situation seems the same with tree stock in so far as nurseries might emphasize that their trees were “hardy,” “well-rooted,” or “true to type,” suggesting that they had confidence in their stock. However, given the many variables affecting tree survival, a formal guarantee, as implied by the label, was risky and not widely practiced.

Many thanks for your comments, though. I’m back on the drawing board.

[urbanalfa]

The idea of guaranteeing outcomes with plants is a modern one created by retailers in recent years and I fully agree that suppliers would not have guaranteed outcomes in the period from which this tag originates.

The guarantee being referred to here is purely about being true to type – i.e. of the variety being advertised in the catalogue.

On another note, the off centre hole is deliberate to ensure that the tag always hangs the right way up because it is hung via twine rather than being rigidly attached to the plant.

[mickey2names]

Thanks – I wish I could find that catalogue! The off-center hole does mean it hangs right, but it looks odd when I try it. I can’t find any other tag with a hole in a similar position – they are all at the top.

[sprayerman]

Hi , just been reading the posts and thought I’d give a lookon the www using term seed catalogue ES50 as a reference and happened upon a company called Elsom Seeds Ltd, based in Spalding Lincolnshire.
A look at their website and in particular their about us page suggests that they commenced business in 1844.
Might be worth you contacting them just in case they happen to have anything to do with your tag?

Good hunting

Cheers

Sprayerman

[mickey2names]

Sprayerman
Very many thanks – will get on to that today

[mickey2names]

Well Done Sherlock Sprayerman. The Games afoot. It looks like you MAY have solved the mystery – Elsom Seeds thinks it might be something to do with them and they are investigating.
Dr Watson

[Author]

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