[ianb]

Did you get the information you needed? From the limited information and pics I can only guess at this being a Mk11-C engine, and I will say a Mk11-C based engine. The C denotes the engine size of 147cc. The Mk11-C was an early dedicated industrial engine from Villiers used by a number of machinery manufacturers for quite a long time, into the 1940s, it is common on Allen Scythes with a cooling cowl. I say ‘based on’ because I believe it was the first engine also sold branded as an ‘Atco Villiers’ for Atco machines. The MK11-C design dates to the 1920s and was first launched in 1928, the single-piece barrel and ‘sunburst’ fin pattern on top of the barrel align to that period. Atco had used earlier Villiers engines, e.g. MkVI-C, but they would be Villiers branded engines. Most of the Villiers engine barrels of this time should have the Mk cast into the base of the barrel in Roman Numerals but it may not be put on an Atco Villiers engines if I am correct. I have pictures of them having ‘Atco Villiers’ cast into the alloy crankcase so check for that which would probably confirm my guess. On engine number, the first three digits of yours identify to Villiers their customer for the order, so 636. There doesn’t seem to be any order to these numbers, each customer which ordered engines for machines was given a code to identify them, 636 is probably Atco. I have a list of what I matched up a few years ago somewhere but I have so much stuff and so little time it is all packed in crates. One day…. Therefore, the engine number is actually 2492, made for customer / order 636. The B2577 is a barrel type part number, I have never seen anyone list these out. I am also going to suggest that the engine is just post-war. It is an old design but the use of the customer ID serial number system only started after the war and my notes suggest the Mk11-C engine was on sale until about 1946 so my guess is this kind of date, 45 – 46. If anyone knows the exact date I would like to know as I would update my engine records notes if it goes beyond 1946. Some of the rest of the machine looks more ‘modern’ than earlier pre-war machines. For a small engine size the carb would probably have been the Villiers Lightweight carb. If you want to confirm any of what I think this engine may be get back to me, I get very little time to log on to forums but will check any replies. I was actually trying to renew my membership and my interest was caught by your question! I probably have info on the engine and manuals. Ian

[ianb]

I have attached a word document which is snippets and pics I have collected over time whilst researching for my book. You may have found this info on-line already but it is here for others who may be interested. If you decide to sell I would be interested, to add it to my Villiers collection. If you have or take any pics I would appreciate those to add to my library.

The single burner stove was called the Mar-Vil which is a little bonkers for those that know the engine of this name! The two burner was the Inferno and there was also a variant of it called the Farmer’s Glory.

I was amazed when I came across these products a while back and it made me wonder what else Villiers made. Originally they made bicycle gears and free-wheel hubs before engines. In the original factory they had a tool shop where they made all of their own tooling. They obviously did consultancy work and that took off and in the end they moved their tooling factory to a new site in Wednesfield and created a company called Villiers (Tool Developments) Ltd in the early 60s, renamed Viltool in 1966. They basically supported all of British Engineering and manufacturing, I have a Viltool company brochure which lists types of work and clients. The stoves must be 1930s onwards.

Attachments:

1. Stoves.docx

[ianb]

Agree with Andy. The Mk25C can have one of 3 carbs but I believe the Bantam has the Villiers Lightweight Type 3/4 carb. A single cable is offset centre to the top of the carb. Earlier Lightweight carbs on Mk25C (late 40s into the 50s) had a lever as well as a cable in the top plate but I doubt it is that model. The Villiers carbs are quite advanced and clever and are ‘compensating’ design, the mixture self-adjusts with engine speed. View it as factory-set but obviously as things get very old and worn this can get less true. Be certain that the timing is correct first before trying to adjust (5/32″ before TDC – points 0.015″). Maybe also try to ensure carb internals are clean. I have a lot of Villiers engines and the two-strokes seem to be very fussy regards spark plugs. Some modern plugs can fire but run rubbish, if at all. I recently did a test on a Mar-Vil which I know runs well. I swapped out several 18mm plugs of age and make and half don’t even start the engine. Only certain plugs like the magneto ‘power’. I don’t want to encourage more competition for the original period plugs!, as the prices are high, but the best plug for this engine is likely to be the Lodge C3. Get one and see if that solves the problem if you have a different plug. I have been paying up to £30 for NOS of these. Champion 8COM is worth a try and my Mk25C has an AC83TS plug. Also, only use old-style 2-stroke oil, modern stuff is a disaster in these engines. I have tried and end up with blue coating on everything, easy to order original Castrol XL on-line. If timing is correct and still problems, a 2-stroke should run relatively lean and should 2-stroke i.e. fire every revolution with no load, if rich it may not 2-stroke. To adjust mixture, unscrew top ring on carb, remove the throttle slide with cable. Under the top plate is the needle adjuster. clockwise weakens (lowers the needle). Only fine adjustment, quarter to max half turn at a time. Manuals say to set from ‘lost setting’ position, start with the end of the screw 2 threads (1/16th”) from top of throttle slide. If you can find one on auction sites, the book by B E Browning ‘Villiers Engine for Industrial, Agricultural and Horticultural Use’ covers M25C and the carbs. It is a rarer book than his similar books on motorcycle engines, presumably down to numbers likely to have been sold. I found one in Holland!

It should be easy enough to find a section diagram of the carb if you search for lightweight or 3/4. It is very similar to the Junior carb as well. It is possible to get different needles I believe but if it is the original carb for the engine it should be correct. I think that to change a needle size isn’t just the needle change though.

Best wishes, Ian

[Author]

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