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Hi Charlie,

Indeed the written word does not covey nuance unless time is taken to compile the text. The forum is not the primary reason I have decided to not renew my membership.

The committee rejected all suggestions of how to cut club costs and voted for the status quo with an across the board rise in membership fees of 50%. They did this in full knowledge that the only rational result would be decreases to both renewals and new members joining. The only question is by how many. It must be presumed the committee thought this would only be a handful and the increase in the membership fee was calculated to offset this. This irritated me, I want the club to expand it’s membership, to help and encourage others in keeping vintage horticultural machines and mowers going. Yet the committee voted for a known method of reducing the membership numbers. From the figures shown in The Cultivator, there was clearly a huge scope to reduce costs. The financial support offered to showmen and to a lesser extent ploughmen, along with the insistence of an expensive printed magazine posted to every member has a vastly disproportionate affect on outgoings. If the membership falls by more than the committee anticipated, the club will enter a doom loop scenario and at some point will have to address expenditure with more rigour. I felt I could not continue to support a club with such an approach from it’s most senior division.

The club could compete with the likes of Facebook, it offers so much more. But it needs to keep up with the rapidly changing times. It requires in my view a complete revision of strategy. I am not sure if the committee, or those who have a large influence upon it, would be prepared for the radical necessary changes required.

Best wishes,

Grahame

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Hi Charlie,

Sadly, I have tried to use the forum in the way it is intended. But have been met with either apathy, or at times a degree of negativity. It is one of several reasons that has formed the decision of not to renew my membership next year.

You are correct, a condenser and a capacitor are different words for the same component. Condenser was what they were called in the early days, the electrons are concentrated or condensed on the plate and not allowed to pass to ground. They are ‘held’ there until the moment of discharge. So the component has ‘capacity’. For some reason the word condenser stuck to this name in ignition systems, capacitor with other electrical circuits. The material inside the capacitor is call a dielectric, there are several forms, the one most commonly used in condensers is a roll of very fine wax paper, some have a tin foil between each layer. Both the dielectric and the solder can suffer from corrosion with age, they then become ‘leaky’. The result is a reduced voltage in the primary when the magnetic field collapses, the voltage is then correspondingly reduced at the plug. The condenser is often overlooked when a poor of no spark is obtained. I replace the condenser with a 630VDC 220nF/0.22 µF polyester film capacitor in the first instance unless a mag can give out a 6mm spark at cranking speed.

No more such detailed explanations in the forum from me in the New Year. Think a lot of it falls on stoney ground anyway, so will not missed. I get a lot of positive interaction if I post such a comment in a relevant Facebook group. I enjoy to two-way conversations.

Best wishes,

Grahame

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An update about the 2a ET conversion. I did a thorough overhaul of the engine, it included replacing the condenser with a capacitor. Which I do as a matter of course now when working on a magneto that does not achieve my default pass level of a 6mm spark in air. I was very pleasantly surprised that the Wico Pacy flywheel magneto got up to an 8mm spark. This is massive and way beyond what is required for such an engine. I therefore decided I was going to leave well alone, it probably could not be improved with an ET conversion.

I also have a Villiers 25c, a Mk10 and an F15. The 25c had a new coil from Villiersparts. George Shead supplied some instructions of how to fit it as it was not the same as the original. It is shorter and the poles are smaller. I fitted it, the engine ran OK, but still not ideal, starting was not straightforward. I fitted a capacitor, it started much more easily and ran better, but the spark is only 4.5mm, sub-optimal. I overhauled the Mk10 years ago, it has not done too much work since. It probably has the original coil and condenser, as it has been stood I cleaned the points, the spark is only 3.5mm. The secondary resistance was 4.8KΩ, so fine. The F15 has an open circuit on the secondary, so duff. I am going to do the ET conversion on the F15 in the first instance. I also have a spare Wico Series A that had a duff condenser, did a hone of the points, fitted a capacitor and with a flick of the impulse the spark was 7.5mm.

I am confident the ET conversion will successfully improve the spark on the Villiers flywheel magnetos and if so. After the F15 will do it to the Mk10 and then the Wico A. It will then be an option for those who do not want to fork out for a new coil if there’s has failed. Or in the worst case scenario, a rewind. Will leave the 25c be for now. I am going to write a report with pictures of how to do it, with test figures of the original system and the ET conversion. I will be making it available for free to assist others if they wish to do the same. The job should take a couple of hours work and the parts cost less than £25. I hope to get the report done in the spring, but I am not renewing my membership to the VHGMC, so will not be able to give it to members through the club’s website. But it will be available through a couple of Facebook group’s ‘Files’ sections. So if a member wants to see it, search for “Grahame Aldington” and “Magneto Energy Transfer System” and something should pop up.

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I did a search and found some taper adaptors, but none fitted. I need 22.5mm ID for the largest hole, going down a 1:5 taper over 23mm. The easiest solution is to get something turned. Am not going to get into a ding dong battle over taper adaptor suppliers. I believe this forum is for constructive comments only.

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I was given a fingerbar mower with a Lombardini IM 250 on it. Something had broken in the gearbox, it would have required expensive machining to fix it, so I took off the parts I wanted and scrapped the rest. The engine ran beautifully, I still have it and at 6.5hp I may fit it to another machine one day. The only downside is the drive shaft is tapered, I cannot find a pulley with a taper bore. So am going to have to get something turned to fit on it to convert it to a parallel shaft. I have downloaded the engine manual, but it’s all in Italian. If there is something you need to know, you can get selected text translated online. If someone wants a copy of the manual, please message me.

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That is indeed sad news. He helped me greatly with queries about Trusty’s and I shall miss his sound advice. His enthusiasm for Trusty’s shone through with everything he said to me. Can I offer my condolences to his family and friends.

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Úgy tűnik, elfoglalt dolgod lesz. Remélem, sikerül mindegyiket szépen működésre bírnod. A képen a téli projektem látható, egy JAP 2a, ami egy Alcon vízpumpára van szerelve, és máris jól elkezdtem. Épp most fejeztem be a szelepek becsiszolását, és most már elkezdhetem az egészet összerakni.

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Here are the photos of the sheared Villiers pump crank after a stone came through the suction hose and locked the impeller. Also the 2a grooved key and a cropped image of the bolt threads showing the original paint on them.

The clean cut on the crank vividly demonstrates what can happen when an engine suddenly stops stone (pun intended) dead and the energy created by momentum of the reciprocating parts has nowhere else to go.

Once got a mixer for it’s drum, my old one had started to rust through. The mixer had a Briggs & Stratton engine that would fire, but not run. Was not bothered, as I had a rescued Honda to fit on. But when I had 5 mins free thought I would get the B&S going. But no go, I subsequently revisited it a couple of times, could not understand why a nearly new engine with good compression, a big fat spark and fuel would only pop and bang for a minute or so. Decided to take off the flywheel to check the ignition timing and the alloy key had half sheared. The drum had stopped suddenly, the flywheel still was able to move and it probably saved the engine. It now runs as sweet as a nut, but have it stored away with no use for it. Have been told to always fit a genuine B&S alloy key, never a steel one.

Have a Clifford Mk1with a Villiers 25c. I re-fitted the flywheel using only light taps on the T bar of the socket and glad I did. When using it I hit a stone that stopped the engine and moved the flywheel on it’s taper. Otherwise the 25c crank could have sheared. My Howard Gem has a pin in the shaft from the clutch that is there to shear if the rotors stop suddenly. Some plough and cultivators have shear bolts too to protect the implement. The grooved key and roll pin follow the same principle.

The paint of the threads should put to bed any thoughts that this engine had had it’s cowl off (and by extension the flywheel), since the day it left the Alcon works in 1951/2. A further inspection revealed the felt behind the stator plate, although I fail to see the relevance of it. The roll pin and grooved key are factory modifications most likely done at the JAP works in conjunction with Alcon. It could be a one off, or part of a small batch, who knows. The grooved key is designed to shear and the roll pin that prevents the pulley from being tightened hard against the flywheel, will let it turn if the engine stops dead. Better a sheared key than a sheared crank. On a portable pump used by ill informed operatives, a solid steel key I would describe as a “recipe for disaster” a sheared crank “untold damage”. The roll pin only has to resist against it’s own rotational inertia force whist the engine is running and the action of the starter rope from static. Not much. It’s primary purpose is to prevent the pulley going tight against the flywheel, so it is free to turn if the key shears.

This will be my last post on this subject (JAP 2a flywheel removal) until I have got the engine running. Am not going to descend further into a ding dong battle on this forum about whether the roll pin and grooved key are factory modifications, or a bodge by a mechanic, or the merits or otherwise of a key and pulley arrangement designed to shear. Nor does the fact others may not have seen such a set-up before. In the grand scheme of things, it makes no difference anyway. The important thing is to take care with the re-fitting of the flywheel to ensure the crank does not move over, everything is correctly aligned, there is no resistance or rubbing. It will be during this assembly process when a final decision will be made whether to tighten the pulley against the crank, or re-fit the roll pin. Current thinking is I am attracted to the idea of maintaining a shear capability due to my own experiences and observations. Also would like to put it back to the same specification it came from the factory. Want to use the engine as a test bed for an energy transfer coil conversion. It may have a use for it as an irrigation pump for my Evenshower oscillating spraylines, but it will need to demonstrate comparable fuel efficiency with my existing modern pumps. Being brought up in the market gardening industry it was drummed into me that a strainer should ALWAYS be used on the suction hose of a pump because if it sucked up a stone it would wreck the pump set. I still think the roll pin and grooved key were a factory modification to trial the idea of introducing a shear element into the design. But was quickly dropped, probably due to the cost. If others take a different view, I am totally unconcerned and will move forward with working on the engine as I see fit.

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[sidevalve5]

H7 is a transition fit, where it’s not a sliding fit, but not a press fit either. The flywheel should fit over the shaft and come off again with very little effort. But have some resistance to rotational turning.

There was no felt seal around the edge of the stator plate.

Believe the engine cowl has never come off since it left the Alcon works. So anything that is unusual was done by the JAP factory or possibly Alcon. The steel key has two grooves either side of it, so was designed to shear if the engine stopped suddenly. Modern engines have an alloy key that does the same. Have you or David seen keys like that on a 2a before, because I have not. Could be that the roll pin mod was specified by Alcon, but only for a short while. If the pulley was tight against the flywheel, the key would not shear as designed. Will take photos of the key and the sheared Villiers crank that I have mentioned in a previous post. That was broken by a pump sucking up a stone.

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Remélje, hogy teljes visszatérítést kap a kézikönyvért. Ha bármiben tudok segíteni, csak kérdezz. Tagja vagyok néhány Facebook-csoportnak, a tagok gyakran kínálnak kézikönyvek pdf-változatait, hogy segítsenek egymásnak. Postázhatnék valamit, de a motorok ritkák ebben az országban, úgyhogy szerintem nem sok van a kézikönyvvel. Kipróbálhatnál egy másik kezdő témát a VHGMC fórumában, de angolul küldenéd. Nem minden tag tudna számítógépe segítségével magyarra fordítani.

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Sok sikert a javításhoz, és remélem sikerül újra rendesen működnie. Nincsenek brosúrám a Tecnamotor motorokról, ezek nagyon ritkák az Egyesült Királyságban. Ne is gondold, hogy láttam egyet. Köszönöm szíves prospektusajánlatát, de csak az általam birtokolt vagy dolgozni fogott motorokról van és kérek információt. Tartson naprakészen minket a motoron végzett munkával kapcsolatban.

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Am thinking very much along the same lines. The pulley should be done up tight against the flywheel, the roll pin prevents that. There is a strong possibility that if it is pulled tight it will pull the crank slightly towards the flywheel end. Am going to grind in the valves, so the stator plate has to come off. Will also get the deposits in the flywheel hole and shaft flattened off so I can get near to H7 h6 or js6 in the Limits and Fits tables. Should then be able to put the flywheel on and off relatively easily and see where the problem lies. Can try it with the roll pin and without, tightening the pulley. I think this is a factory bodge and if so, it was done for a reason. It could have also been a method to prevent over-tightening by ham-fisted ‘mechanics’ after the matter was raised. It could have been only done for a small production run, then decided to drop the idea. All I do know is that I do not want to damage an engine that has done little work from new.

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If using Windows on a PC, the default program will have a slider in the bottom right hand corner of the monitor with a – on the left, a + on the right. Move the slider to the right to zoom in. Alternatively, with the mouse cursor over the image, roll the mouse wheel up, away from your hand.

The roll pin is actually 3off, 2 larger ones and a centre spacer that is in the middle of the crank. Was going to not use them, but now am having second thoughts. After reading what David wrote, they could prevent the pulley pressing tightly on the flywheel because of a machining error on one of the associated parts. Rather than throw the batch away, fitting a roll pin was a more economic (bodge) solution. The ‘corrosion’ could be a type of loctite to prevent the flywheel moving in and out on the shaft. Am not sure about this. Going to grind the valves as I think this is the cause of the lack of compression, the seats look terrible because of years of storage with the valves open. When I re-assemble, will try to work out why the roll pins were fitted.

Have a 2a on a Colwood that I have had and used for 30+ years. The info I got all that time ago was the points gap is 0.018 – 0.020”, timing 30o BTDC. Have taken a picture of my points set-up and it looks the same as David’s. Believe mine has not had the cowl off since the day it left the factory, so it’s original. Can alter the timing by moving the armature backplate on the slots as shown in the photo. As the cam for the points is separate from the flywheel, can set the timing with the flywheel off. But expect it to be spot on as there is so little wear on the engine. Do not think it has done more than a few 10’s of hours since 1951.

Really pleased to hear Andy was approving of the external energy transfer coil trial. If it works, it should cost £25 max for the first one and £10 for the next 6 as the 125g roll of enamelled copper wire and a roll of heat resistant polyester tape will do several primary coil windings. Can get an external coil for under £6 if it purchased via Temu. It could save some old engines because it is so cheap to do.

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Dear David,

Had another look at the engine yesterday and indeed it does have a head gasket. When I took the head off on Saturday I only took a quick look at it, noting it had numbers stamped on the contact face. It was covered in thick green paint. The numbers were an imprint of those stamped on the cylinder and into the soft head gasket. A closer inspection revealed the head gasket.

I also had a more detailed look at the crankshaft and hole in the flywheel. Both had roughness and have started to flatten it off the shaft. It appears to me corrosion, but not from water. Still think something was on the shaft or in the hole during assembly, maybe an acid type material. The good news is that I can flatten it off so the correct interference is restored. Am going to re-fit and take off until I am satisfied the flywheel will come off as it should.

Your positive reply restored my faith in the VHGMC forum. My understanding of a forum is to discuss ideas in an open, proactive and positive manner, I like to engage in this process. I sometimes feel those who wish to obtain information or expand their knowledge and experiences by posting a subject in the VHGMC forum are often met with apathy and/or negativity. You, the hdtrust and a couple of others are the only exceptions. Facebook groups appear to have younger, more open minded members who are willing to positively engage. This does not bode well for the future of the club.

Best wishes,

Grahame

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Am afraid there is a huge variation in prices. It depends very much on the condition and what the vendor thinks it’s worth. That’s often a lot more than it would get in an auction where the starting price is low and the bidders raise it until sold. Suggest one in poor condition is worth twice scrap value, say £25 and 10X that for a good runner.

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