16:1 will be fine with that oil.
Yes the engines bottom end is lubricated by the incoming charge of petrol / oil mix from the carburettor first….then this same mixture goes up the transfer ports into the combustion chamber,lubricating the cylinder,piston etc.
Yes the small screws on the LH side of the machine are oil level screws for the front “worm and wheel” and rear rotor “worm and wheel”.If you have found no oil in these areas then damage (wear) to the bronze worm wheels will be high !!!.These bronze worm wheels are expensive to replace IF you can find them.Also the design of the rotor worm wheel was changed slightly over the years.
Ordered the new parts from Paul at Meetens – what a great service from them. They don’t have the coils in stock right now so am going to try with the old one initially.
Spent the rest of the day cleaning the machine. Looking much better already but does need some paint. I’ll wait to see if it runs first. Totally dismantled the motor/belt adjustment to make it move at all. Working nicely now. Welded a nut onto the turned-down end of the flywheel bolt as well.
There’s no oil anywhere to be found (just some smelly emulsion) so some questions again:
Is the motor bottom end simply lubricated by the blow-back?
What grade oil are you all using in the gearboxes?
Are the little screws for fill level?
What fuel mix are you using? I see mention of 16:1 with 30 weight oil. Is this suitable?
Thanks again,
Jim
Attachments:
The Howard Gem is worth saving, in working order they are a very capable machine.
There is a wire in there, it’s a good idea to replace it as well. One member had a very frustrating time getting a spark until someone alerted him to the fact that it could be corroded as well – it was! It’s in the archive somewhere – I’ll have a look….
Excellent progress.
Flywheel removed after locking crank with a bit of old wood – what a clever arrangement for splitting a morse-tapered shaft.
Back plate with all electrical bits on removed ready for investigation. I’ll probably renew all the bits, but it does seem a shame to lose that lovely original Villiers coil.
So obviously, the position of the flywheel on the crank sets the timing. Is there a set-up guide somewhere to help me reposition it on assembly?
Thanks for all the advice so far,
Jim
PS – I also have the option to get hold of 2x Howard GEMs. Are these worth having?
Hello there Angus.
The Ferodo manual of 1956 quotes part No 20196 Ferodo belt No V350. cost seven shillings and fourpence. That is for series 1V with Villiers 4stroke engine.
Not sure if this helps.
Chris
Cheers Charlie.
Whacking will commence in the morning.
Yes keep turning after it goes tight, it designed to pull the flywheel off the taper which is why it will go tight. When putting the flywheel back make sure crank and flywheel surfaces of taper are clean and free of oil, for final tightening use an old spaaner and give it a good wack with a hammer. If it is not tight enough it will slip and throw the timing out.
Jim , yes it’s a 25C (twostroke).
Andy.
Thanks for the advice everyone.
As above, I’m still not convinced I’ve correctly identified the engine type. Is the 25C a four stroke? Mines a 2.
Can anyone tell from the original pic I posted?
Cheers,
Jim
Well, that’s progress; sometimes with this old kit “needs must” has to take presidence over “good practice”!
As Charlie says, Villiers coils are a known issue but in fairness, if it is original, it is probably over 50 years old !
Go for a new or rewound coil and not a “new old stock” one that may have hidden internal corrosion. As well as Meetens, Villiers Services and Villiers Parts are both good sources but when comparing prices be aware that some include vat and some don’t. For the sake of another £10/12 a new condenser could save a lot of hassle.
Can’t echo Charlies words enough , it may appear costly to completely renew the magneto components , but in the long run it will be the difference between losing your temper trying to start it , and having a machine that will start FIRST pull.
Speak to Paul Childs at Meetens , he will have all the parts you need.
Andy.
Hi Charlie.
Thanks for that. Once the central bolt goes tight again, do I just keep turning it?
How much is a complete set of coils, points and condensor going to set me back?
Also, isn’t the 25C a fours stroke motor?? Mine is a 2 stroke so I still need to confirm the motor type. I cannot see any identification numbers on it.
Jim
Jim glad to hear you managed to get the flywheel off. The Villiers coils do have a reputation for failing. If replacing the coil I would recommend spending the extra and also replace the points and condenser you will then be sure of a good spark. Corrosion between backplate and various components bolted to it can also be a problem as this is the way they are earthed.
Hi Angus.
Well I have managed to remove the flywheel bolt. Had to hammer a socket onto the rounded off head and use an air impact gun in the end. As you suggest, I will now weld a nut onto the head of the old one. I’ll probably turn the old head down first.
The points were actually rusted together. They now move OK and I’ve filed new faces, but not sure I’m getting a spark yet. There’s currently no cylinder/piston on the motor, with the con-rod flopping about from the crank. I will have to wait to get the new rings before reassembling the top half and running the crank at speed.
What else could be wrong with the ignition system that is replaceable?
Cheers both,
Jim
