Machine choice for ploughing etc

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi, I’m new to the forum, it seems like there are many helpful and friendly people here! I run various old machines to tend my veg patch and also just for the fun of it.

So, I want to set up a medium sized machine for ploughing to try and help drainage and avoid the panning effect of too much rotavating. I have quite a lot of Gem bits and was wondering about setting up a Gem as a two wheel tractor rather than a rotavator. Essentially a set of 16 inch wheels bolted on solidly and a Jap 5 as I have a good one. Despite a fair bit of searching around I can’t find anyone who’s done this…. surely the Gem gearbox is up to it?! Or not?! Thoughts appreciated!

The other option is a Clifford Mk4 which I’ve been offered – but it needs a fair bit of work.

Sub questions…. does anyone know for a medium sized plough?! I’m in Dorset but can travel!

How can I tell the difference beyeeen a Jap 5 and 6?

And… a couple of historic things – does anyone have any idea why Clifford were using the Jap and BSA motorbike type engines AFTER the industrial engines? It seems like a step back?! Finally…. re Howard models, it seems that there were several models being built around the same time and of a similar size – notably the Gem, 400 and Yeoman… I can see that the 700 is superior (or more versatile ) than the Gem – but were the others just cheaper and less refined?

Many thanks in advance for any feedback!

Edward

[jwilkes]

Edward

I have a Gem and like you was looking at the idea of using it a two wheeled tractor. The problem is that you have to take a lot of the rotor box off to get a usable tractor unit and then start welding to get a mounting point for implements. I have chosen to go the Yeooman / 70 route where the rotor box drops off easily and new implements can be attached whilst reverting back to rotavator when needed. I will sell on my GEM all being well in the spring as it has done the main job of ripping up a 1/4 acre to become a lawn.

The gem has a lot going for it – True differential and diff lock 3 forward and 1 reverse plus the weight and power

With regards to implements I use a 40mm square bare with a 20mm pin hole and can use most of the merry tiller stuff.

The Yeoman is a smaller unit – about 200KG rather than the 300KG that the Gem come in on. It has the choice on 1 or 2 wheel drive so no differential but an effective diff lock The gem has most of the bits available but Yeoman not so.

Just my thoughts

jeremy

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thanks Jeremy, I happened to have read your post earlier about your yeoman – I can see the logic in what you’re doing, for sure.

I’m in the reverse position in a way, in that I’m more than happy to have more machines than entirely necessary…. I have a Gem which I put a Lombardini twin in for heavy work; a merry tiller, a Clifford Mk1 and a rather modified mayfield… and that’s just the functional stuff.

So, if I made a Gem into a tractor the rotor box would never go back on. My only real concern is that Howard put those friction clutch affairs on the wheels – as if the gearbox is made of bone China. On my Lombardini Gem I have the wheel and rotor clutches done up tight and I’ve worked it hard (the engine is nearly 30hp) – when the engine bogs down the main clutch will slip a little – otherwise no problems – but I realise that most of the power is going to the rotor.

That’s my main concern, that if it’s pulling hard with bigger wheels without the slip clutches that something will break. Maybe I should just get on with it…

I was pondering this afternoon about a Petter ph1 Diesel instead of a petrol Jap – which could I thought be done by making a chassis that would pick up on the bellhousing and the rear rotor mounting and give a mounting for the engine and for implements.

Am I barking mad do you think?

Edward

[jwilkes]

Not sure what I think. My Gem has the Kholer Kt17 twin with the luxury of electric start, by coincidence I also have a Clifford mk1 setup with finger mower and largely original. Last time I used as a rotavator hit a stone and the flywheel span so needed retiming, keep it as a finger mower.

When I looked at the Gem I was more concerned about the actual mounting points that I would need to use for the implements. The connection with the Yeoman and the other demountable rotor machines seem more sturdy than using the handlebar mounting points. I think I would feel better if I could machine mew mounts directly into the gearbox casing for the attachment but that makes a much bigger gob as you get a full gearbox strip as a starting point. I am doing this with the Yeoman but this is only a 60 year service. I might be over sensitive as I have pulled the pig ark out of the field in the past – Normally use a Massy T20 for that job but it was broke at the time.

these old machines are over engineered by modern standards and should take some overpowering.

Got a lister Petter 2 Cylinder Diesel engine currently connected to a compressor but that would make a lovely pulling unit if I could find a strong enough gearbox and balance the chassis!

[vhgmcbuddy]

Thanks for that, Jeremy, and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I think I’ll give something a go with a Gem gearbox and it’s own chassis. What’s the worse that could happen….

I’m slightly surprised that more people didn’t chip in on this – or on my other little queries. I wonder if the talk of modifying stuff gets people’s backs up?! I personally think originality is all well and good, but I like a machine to work…hence most of my things are modified. Usually in such a way that they could be changed back.

I’d love to put a different engine in a Clifford Mk1 but not found anything sufficiently narrow.

Did your Gem have the Kohler twin from new? I wonder if it has heated seats etc too?!

I hope the Yeoman is going well!

[jwilkes]

Edward
Good to hear from you

Not sure about the other members of the club, it is honourable to keep original, but like you I need my machines to work. The ones I have recovered largely have engines beyond economic repair as either rusted up, seized or completely missing. I agree with modify but with the option to reverse the modification afterwards if needed, this does keep the value up for the enthusiasts for keeping it original, after all someone might have an Engine looking for a machine and the two can be united.

Thoughts on the Clifford I would think about a 50cc or bigger strimmer engine as a swap as about the right weight and power It will require quiet a bit of engineering but the machine is of a good quality and worthy of continued use.

The Gen came with a Kholer 11 HP crank start unit where the BIg end broke. Heated seats could be on the agenda for the Yorman though good thought.

Tonight I have a Yeoman back to the rolling Chassis stage . The last bit to fit is the roto box clamp, next step is the Engine mounting , a day on the lathe over Christmas me thinks. Once that is done a full strip and repair of the rotobox. Only real problem is understanding the Reverse gear interlock which had been removed by previous user, If I can get some picture should be able to work it out.

As I am fitting this with a riding seat I am considering adding a riding perhaps some brakes on the hubs, hot sure at the moment what to use but that is in plan, also thinking of tandem conversion , small alpine if I can get a second Yeoman. Might be fun.

How are your Gem plans going? should be a beast and the diff lock is I suspect essential

Jeremy

[vhgmcbuddy]

Do you have a direct email Jeremy, I’m at snowfish@hotmail.co.uk

[jwilkes]

Edward, Sent you an email direct

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi Jeremy, I sent you an email but just realised I got an auto reply to my junk folder saying you’re away from the office till the new year – so guess you’ll pick it up then? Best wishes, Edward

[vhgmcbuddy]

Hi snowfish i have a howard dragon (made 1981) and l have the reversible plough /rotavator and sickle bar attachments. i also have 4 howard gems plus some other smaller howards. i have ploughed but getting a good grip with small wheels is a challenge. i also have an auto culto with a plough and one of these auto culto ploughs would be my choice if you want to experiment with a gem ploughing.

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