Hayter and BSA info' needed.

[wristpin]

First, does anyone have a 12″ Hawk graveyard mower that still has the original wooden anti-scalp roller? If so please be kind and measure the length and diameter of the roller and either post the dimensions here or pm me with them.
I’ve recently acquired a BSA F12 Sloper engine minus the recoil starter which didn’t concern me when I got it as I have a good few Sloper bits and pieces in the may/will come in useful bin. However the flywheel housing on this particular engine has three starter fixing bolt holes with captive nuts rather than the more usual four for either the Siba or Norton Villiers Starters. None of my Villiers/BSA F12 manuals show a three legged starter so can anyone throw any light on this – or even better, does anyone have a spare one that they are willing to sell?

[andyfrost]

Angus , I’m thinking you require the pressed steel type starter rather that the cast alloy type.
I’m fairly certain it is the same as some of the Villiers lightweights , failing this the cowlings would be interchangeble , and you could revert back to the Siba type starter.

Andy.

[wristpin]

It’s a bit of a mystery at present as I have both the Norton Villiers pressed steel and the ally Siba units and they both have four legs. There’s no problem in getting round the issue as I have several four hole cowlings but it’s now become something that I would like to get to the bottom of. (anal?!)
I’ve dropped an email to Paul at Meetens – if any one knows the answer it will be him.

Solved the issue of the Hawk roller dimensions as someone on another forum has produced a parts list showing the roller dimensions.

[trusty220]

I seem to remember that when we had a very old Ransomes Auto Certes into the workshop we used to pray that the recoil was working because the older models were fitted with the BSA sloper and the recoils weren’t compatible with the later Villiers produced engines. We couldn’t get parts for the BSA recoil at the time, and this was back in the 1980’s

How they were different I cannot recall, but once BSA sold the design to Villiers there was definitely a change of recoil starter (probably to fit in with existing Villiers designs).

Your only resort may be to change the cowlings to the later sort.

[wristpin]

All interesting stuff . I’ve been having a bit of a sort through some odds and ends which may cast some light on my F12 Sloper conundrum.
I’m attaching an image that I took today showing, on the left a Siba starter, in the centre a three leg Villiers one which does fit the Sloper in question and on the right the remains of a Villers four hole which is identical to the one on my Ransomes Twenty Four with a Villiers F15 and interestingly appears to be identical to the illustration in the F12 handbook; so have Villiers used the wrong illustration in the F12 book or were both three and four leg pressed steel NV starters used on the F12 Sloper.

Looks like the forum software wont allow me to add a pdf file so here’s a Dropbox link instead!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgpo0504fbs6cnv/Villiers%20and%20Siba%20recoil%20units0001.pdf?dl=0

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[will-haggle]

Two pictures of my Tarpen machines. One is the independent engine unit with Lightweight and the other is Tarpen Generator with F15….

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[andyfrost]

Angus , yes there were both 3 and 4 hole starters for the F12.

Andy.

[wristpin]

</Angus , yes there were both 3 and 4 hole starters for the F12.>

Paul at Meetens tells me that the pressed steel cased three leg unit was BSA’s design and that after Villiers took on the BSA brand they incorporated the same internals into a four leg case.

Thanks to all for the contributions. The engine in question is now up and running with electronic ignition and a borrowed three leg starter.

[andyfrost]

Good result Angus.

Andy.

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