Vintage Horticultural and Garden Machinery Club

I’ve worked on quite a number of 2As , and have seen both types of camshaft , but have NEVER seen one without govenors , out of interest is the block machined to take the govenor shaft. I can’t envisage a 2A lasting very long at 4000RPM…… something doesn’t seem to add up here.

Andy.

Sorry David I can’t make alot of sense with that , there’s no way a 2A would rev to 4000 , it would simply blow up after VERY short time.Assuming you had both engines stripped out , did the ungoverned one have any sign of the internal govenor components.When correct they are one of the easiest starting engines , I’ve just finished one on a Howard Bulldog for a friend , starts first pull and runs like a clock.

Andy.

Hi David,

Have a 1½” Alcon pump powered by the Villiers engine. Got it in the 1980’s and used it for irrigation. But then got sprinker rotor heads that needed a higher pressure (30 – 35 psi) than my original ones. The pump also started to take an age to prime. Fitted a new seal kit I got from Vulcan Water Pump Seals, it improved the suction, but still the pressure was not sufficient. Got another Honda engined Clark pump (26 meter head), but still the pressure was not enough. So did try to link the two together, but I only got a small increase in pressure. In the end got a Robin engine Koshin pump (30+ meter head), it performed well.

Took the Alcon pump apart again and found the engine crankshaft was pitted with rust. I think these indents allow a small amount of air to get past the seal and effect the pump’s performance. I was going to go along a similar line to yourself and sleeve the crankshaft. But without your skills I was going to use a hardened stainless steel shaft repair sleeve. Proposed to fit it over the shaft then grind off the flange. What do you think of that idea.

Decided I would swap the Koshin pump and fit it on the nearly new Honda engine, the Clark pump onto the well used Robin engine. Found that the crankshaft on the Robin engine had grooves on it where the seal was in contact with it. Also the Clark pump seal was not in the best condition, so replaced it with one from Vulcan. Now have two pumps that perform well, although the Koshin is the superior one.

Dropped on some Evenshower Oscillating Spraylines and these operate at a much reduced pressure. In fact I now use the Clark pump and only need half revs from the Robin engine. The original pendulum operated oscillation valve was worn out and leaked everywhere. So make another from a pair of ¼” ballvalves. But the operation was too stiff for the pendulum, freeing them up caused leaks. Have just spent Easter Sunday making a new valve with a 3 port L configuration. Have high hopes of success and will be starting irrigation this week. It needs it too, in my part of the world near Evesham we have not have any significant rain for 6 weeks or more. Am going to put a pressure gauge on the irrigation system to see exactly what pressure the spraylines need. They are very satisfying to see operating, gently and quietly going from one side to the other in true 1950 – 60’s market gardening style.

Best wishes,

Grahame

Hi David,

My Villiers engined Alcon pump is definitely 1½”. It does have a model number on it. I got it from a retiring market gardener, who sold me all the delivery and suction hoses too. It ran poorly, so I did my usual top end, points and carb service, it then ran well. It was noisy though under load and drank fuel. The Honda GX160 is a lot quieter and less thirsty, the Robin EY15 even better on both counts. The pumps have a superior performance than the Alcon too. So am on no particular rush to get the Villiers/Alcon combi running again. Very interested to hear that the pressure gauge had a red line at 20 psi and it rarely achieved that. It explains a lot. A friend of mine got 16 spraylines (they are each 15’ long) with a Villiers/Alcon combi and it never worked very well. He said he then got a Honda pump that ran the spraylines fine. He grew lettuce, watering regularly. He filled the fuel tank full and left it to run dry whilst he went off to do another job.

When I first took the Alcon pump apart, found the seal had all but disintegrated. Vulcan Water Seals were very helpful in identifying a replacement and were keen for it to be added to their database. The Clark pump had been purchased by a chap who had had his house flooded and wanted it in case it happened again. He then moved house and had no further use for it. He started the engine every few months, but did not know he was meant to put a bit of water in it to keep the seal lubricated. When I came to swap the pumps over I could see the damage done, so put a new seal in, again from Vulcan. Just for the fun of it I tested the suction with a vacuum gauge. This is when I found the Alcon pump was not achieving the recommended 20-25 ins Hg negative pressure. The others passed.

Had an idea to increase pressure by pumping from one pump, through another to replicate a multistage pump. But it did not work, the second pump was the Alcon and the Villiers engine struggled with the flow rate from the Clark pump. I did get an increase in pressure, but it was not enough. Quickly realized a multistage pump needs to have a calibrated flow from the first stage to the second and maybe a different impeller design too. My effort was doomed to failure.

Best wishes,

Grahame

Hi David,

Took a couple of pictures of the one I got at the auction. Also my old original Villiers pump to add context. The JAP pump has a nameplate on the cowling with the first number being 1943. Do not know if that is the date it was put together, or if it is a coincidence. Also do not know if Alcon purchased the engines unpainted, then painted them all over in one colour. Or if it was reconditioned at some point and it was then it received the lime green finish. Be good it anyone could shed more light on this. The most important thing though is to get it working again and from the time it was painted, do not think it’s done much work. The oil is clean and the lot number shown is from a different auction. So it was likely purchased then, either the just stored, or the new owner could not get it to go until the farm clearance sale when I got it.

Had to do a bit of research about pumps when the Villiers engined Alcon pump would not provide enough pressure after I purchased 7off Hunter MP2000 Rotators to replace rotaframes. It would not both atomize the water sufficiently and throw it to the radius specified. I needed 25psi minimum, ideally 40psi, but 30psi would be OK at flow rates of 6.1, 7.7 or 6.7 gallons per minute respectively. Not many small petrol pumps could do that. But then got a Honda pump that just about did the job. During this research I discovered that you need a minimum negative pressure of 20 ins Hg (25” is optimal) on the suction side. Got a negative pressure gauge and did some testing and it was then I could determine if a seal needed replacing. Am afraid the Alcon pump never achieved the minimum negative suction pressure, even with a new seal. I also found that a new Clark 2” pump that had been run without water in it many times had ruined it’s seal too. A quick test is to put the palm of your hand over the suction end and it should have sufficient pull to feel quite painful. Or the time it takes to start pumping and if yours does this so quick, the seals are good. The Villiers pump used to take 3+ minutes.

If my Alcon pump was in good condition and could produce 66ft head, this would equate to 28psi with very little flow. Obviously pressure reduces as the flow rate increases. Another problem I had with the Rotators was blockages to the nozzles, so had to get a filter. Am pumping from a well into 80m of layflat tubing and found even tiny bits of debris (mainly little seeds and slime) caused troubles. Such a system really needs a permanently fixed suction pipe and underground delivery pipes. I then acquired an Evenshower Oscillating Sprayline system and upgraded it by doubling the nozzles to 10off on 6 sections and replacing the original worn out cone type 3 port valve to a ¼” BSP ball 3 port L valve. It works really well. It only needs 12 – 15psi at 7GPM. Believe it will run on a recently acquired 1” Locin pump, or a 1½” Alcon pump. But I now run it with the Clark 2” pump hooked up to a Robin EY15 engine and after it has started to delivery water from the well. Reduce the revs to about a third. It then purrs along under little stress. It’s a stress reliever for me too, I find watching, smelling and listening to an irrigation system operating therapeutic.

Best wishes,

Grahame

Hi David,

Fantastic video. The seal I took out of the Villiers/Alcon pump was all covered in crud and breaking up. Vulcan Seals asked if I could send it to them so a replacement could be identified and also they would have a record of it on their database. Just looked it up and it was in 2011 when I got the new seal. I cannot recall what the old seal’s construction method was. But they said the one I sent was probably a John Crane type from around the 1980’s, so not the original seal. The ungovened pump certainly revs away, a testament to the quality of JAP’s, which I think are better engines than Villiers. Believe this is from their heritage of high performance engines.

Noted the increase in pressure when you hooked up both pumps. When I tried it, it only raised the pressure by about 20%. What I did was pump from a more powerful Honda/Clark pump through the Villiers/Alcon set. The Villiers had a duff seal at the time and even if it would have been a good one. Think the difference in pump design and specification would have caused a degree of conflict within the system. It may have worked better if the Villiers pump supplied the Honda and that would have boosted the pressure more.

Vulcan Seals were very helpful in identifying a replacement seal for both the Alcon and Clark pumps. Leaks through the impeller shaft is very common, with wear damage and corrosion to the shaft being the problem. They have bellows type seals that help to overcome this and it is that what I fitted to the Alcon pump. But the corrosion over the length of the shaft I think meant it did not fully seal. I was going to get a stainless steel shaft repair sleeve to fix it. But it’s way down on my list of priorities because even if it performs as it should. It will still be not as good as more modern pumps. The Villiers engine is a good one, but is more thirsty and noisy than the Honda and Robin engines, the Alcon pump delivers a lower pressure. Did note that every pump I took apart had a degree of damage to the steel drive shaft. It was one of the reasons I swapped the engines over as the seals were then in contact with the shaft at a different position. If the stationary and rotary faces of the seal starts to create a lot of friction. It can partially seize and then the drive element will then start to turn on the shaft, causing damage, wear and finally a leak. It’s why a pump should never run with no water in it. Also pumping dirty water will wear the seal contact faces out quickly as well as scoring them. This roughens it and can lead to the surfaces gripping, again causing the seal to rotate on the shaft. An old boy who once installed irrigation systems for Evenproducts told me that even a tiny leak on the suction side significantly affects pump performance. It can cause cavitation and he has seen damage to the aluminium surfaces within a pump from it. Think some of the trouble with seals is also caused if there is a steel shaft that then rusts over time. The Villiers engine’s shaft was very pitted and although I sanded the rust off, think the amount of material removed and the still rough surface. Has enabled a small amount of air to get through. I do drain my pumps after each use, but when storing them now am going to blow them through as well. Great advice and thank you.

In summary, the Villiers/Alcon set had a well seized drain plug, I think water was left in it permanently, causing the engine shaft to rust. The Honda/Clark pump was brand new, got in case of flooding and started every couple of months, running dry. The sealing surfaces gripped, causing the seal drive to turn on the engine shaft. The Robin/Koshin (it was a Koshin SE-50X pump I got for the higher pressure, it’s was not a Honda pump as previously stated) was from a plant hire fleet and had a hard life with a strong possibility of being used for dirty water. The seal was very worn, with evidence of the drive element turning on the shaft. All of the above could have been prevented with better user understanding and care of the equipment. Hope my experiences will help others in the use of pumps. It’s all worked out very well for me because I purchased broken pumps cheap, repaired them at little cost and have some cracking kit now. Was enjoyable learning about them too. Makes me think I must have been soft in the head when I put my hand up at last week’s auction. It was in part because of your descriptions of your pumps was at the back of mind when there were no bidders. Seeing your video has given me impetus to get the new acquisition going again.

Did some watering yesterday evening and took some (not very good) pictures of the Evenproducts Oscillating Sprayline. In the Vale of Evesham when I was growing up most market gardeners had this setup. You do not see them now as traditional market gardening has died out. The oscillating system is really simple, with the tank filling from a nozzle and as it gets heaver it moves downwards against the effect of the counter-weight, twisting the sprayline (anti-clockwise in the photo). When the tank is near the ground the pendulum swings (to the left in the photo), the water from the nozzle is stopped by the 3 port valve and the water in the tank slowly drains out through the valve, the falling counter-weight twisting the sprayline in the opposite direction (clockwise in the photo). When to tank is nearly empty and raised up, the pendulum moves again, the tank starts to fill and the cycle starts over again. You can adjust flow rates and the pendulum stops for oscillation speed and irrigated width. The downsides are they are more labour intensive to move around, the irrigated area is small and precipitation rates low. None of this is a bother to me though, because it has upsides too. It is quiet, the application more even than sprinkers and they are better suited to pumping from a well with a limited volume.

Best wishes,

Grahame